Curse

LightningHell · Dec 14, 2005, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Mo/Me x2
Smiting Prayers 12
Inspiration 12

Signet of Judgement (Main spike)
Mantra of Signets (Insta-recharge)
Resurrection Signet (Resurrection?)
Signet of Humility (If there is an annyoing elite...)
Mantra of Inscriptions(The other Mantra, I'm thinking about dumping one of them)
Drain Enchantment (I don't really need the energy, but if one enchantment is really annoying me...)
Inspired Hex (Same from above.)
Ether Lord (Don't really need that much energy, and I can drain

Well, not that great, but still something to reckon from the supposedly "shit" Ether Lord.)

Mo/Me x2
Smiting Prayers 12
Inspiration 12

Signet of Judgement (Main spike)
Mantra of Signets (Insta-recharge)
Resurrection Signet (Resurrection?)
Purge Signet (In emergencies)
Mantra of Inscriptions (The other Mantra, I'm thinking about dumping one of them)
Drain Enchantment (I don't really need the energy, but if one enchantment is really annoying me...)
Inspired Hex (Same from above.)
Ether Lord (Don't really need that much energy, and I can drain

Well, not that great, but still something to reckon from the supposedly "shit" Ether Lord.)

Mo/Me x2
Divine Favor 8 +1
Protection Prayers 10 +3
Smiting Prayers 11 +1 +1
Inspiration 6

Signet of Judgement (See Above)
Mantra of Signets/Inscriptions (Determined with build and which of them they are using)
Blessed Aura (Lengthen the enchants...)
Divine Boon (Boon Prot sort of thing)
Protective Spirit (Um...Need any explaining)
Aegis (IWAY stopper?)
Resurrection Signet (Resurrect)
Reversal of Fortune (Um Yeah.)

Mo/Me x2
Divine Favor 8 +1
Healing Prayers 10 +3
Smiting Prayers 11 +1 +1
Inspiration 6

Dwayna’s Kiss (Healing)
Orison of Healing (Healing)
Heal Other (Healing!)
Signet of Judgement (Spiking)
Healing Touch (Self Heal)
Mantra of Signets/Inscriptions (Inco-operate with the other Mantra)
Infuse Health (Insta-Heal)
Signet of Devotion (Heal!)

NOTE: Since I haven't got a post-Searing Monk character yet, I am just predicting that each point in Smiting Prayers will get a +4 in damage for each attribute point, starting from 15. Those were from my (far too basic) calculations.

Just like any other spike team, except there are 8 spikers and four of them are also combined healers or protectors.

So, I'm assuming SoJ does 79 damage at ATL 16 (Attribute Level), and 67 at ATL 13.

So, if the spike is coordiated, it would deal 584 damage, in an area. If that is not enough to kill, there is a Mantra of Signets there, so use it. (lol.)

Hey, I just don't have time here. Please comment as desired. Don't flame pointlessly. Don't waste your breath.

I don't mean for them to ball up. Minimum amounts of groups = 2. They shouldn't be too far apart though. Erm. I'm thinking of Symbol of Wrath, to get some of the IWAYs out of range.

mortalis doleo · Dec 14, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

i like monk teams in general

i tried making an SoJ spike a while ago, but it didnt go too well

what i can tell you, is the following:
1. the aoe on SoJ isnt that big, so expect to be killing only 1-2 people per spike.
2. your healers and protectors will be too ocupied (sp) to heal and protect, since they are in on the spike (SoJ has a 2 sec cast time if my memory serves...)
3. 4 res signets makes for a dead monk team.
4. a normal monk team makes a healing ball. i dont know if that is your plan or not, but if you've thought about it, then you need heal area, a life bonder and healing seed.
5. saying that ignorance/rust/primal echoes owns this buld is obvious... but since they are rarely brought to HoH, this shouldn't be too much of an issue.
6. i liked the energy denial idea...
7. mantra of signets is not neccesary, and just wastes energy. you will do more than fine with just the inscription. i would say switch it with banish, to follow up quickly on the spike, if the target isnt dead.
8. DONT TAKE REBIRTH!!!! AHHHHH!!!

get res sig for prot monks...

yeah, that's it

for the main part, i like your build like i like every monk team in the world...

LightningHell · Dec 14, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

1. Alright. Point taken. (Factor in the recharge of SoJ and it doesn't seem so tasty after all.)
2. I was thinking of splitting them into 2 teams, of 1 each. You must have noticed I have 2 of each. I wonder if it solves the problem, though.
3. Well, I don't want to use Resurrect for the more damaging smiters...Remember they have absolutely no points in any other attribute except for Insp and Smiting Prayers.
4. No, I don't really intend to make a healing ball. Two healing balls, maybe. PS, a life bonder is practically useless with all that enchantment stripping I see being thrown around.
5. I was counting on that

.
6. Thanks

Since most of the skills are either 5e or signets, I thought
7. Well, I wanted it to be fast...
8. Resurrection Signet? Didn't you tell me not to bring that?

Well, considering there are 4 support kind of characters, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

EDIT: I might just tell you the basic layout... Just try cramping them into some old spot, playing defensively at first, then SoJ 2 times. One after the other. Unless this guy has a super fast Light of Dwayna, they're supposed to be dead. lol. I'm thinking of using Symbol of Wrath to get them back to that "some old spot". Hopefully a narrow one. That's why I made the team to be able to split into 2.

mortalis doleo · Dec 14, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

in #4 i didnt say not to use res sig, i said 4 isnt enough (look carefully

)

and yeah, you are preaching to the quire... i like monk teams...

i would still get rid of mantra of signets, and put in banish, to follow up on the SoJ (the next one will come soon, since you have inscription).

Chev of Hardass · Dec 14, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Any team like this will get absolutely owned by Cry of Frustration.

CoF FTW!!!!!

Ball up if you want, but AoE interupts are devestating to long casters. Mantra of Resolve is not even that good vs CoF. You put two energy denial mesmers on one guy and drain him, then CoF FTW.

You could probably farm some fame from IWAY groups of somethig like that though.

mortalis doleo · Dec 14, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

you can pretty much drain all you want... these are signet characters...

and there is nothing you can say! monks ftw!!!

Adria Soulseeker · Dec 14, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Any team like this will get absolutely owned by Cry of Frustration.

CoF FTW!!!!!

It always cracks me up when someone posts an idea about a team build (this one looks pretty nice BTW) and someone else says "OMG!!one11, this would totally be owned by (enter one of any number of skills that might work against said build here)!" People, this has been said many many times, this game is like rock, paper, scissors, in that, for EVERY BUILD and EVERY SKILL, there is ALWAYS something the will counter it effectively!

I like the idea of trying something like this, it might work, and if the other team is not EXACTLY prepared and equipped to deal with it (like using CoF, or any number of other interrupts), it seems like it would work very well. good job!

Chev of Hardass · Dec 14, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

you can pretty much drain all you want... these are signet characters...

and there is nothing you can say! monks ftw!!!

Ahhem, when refering to Mantra of Resolve, two Drain mesmers can knock out Mantra of Resove allowing Cry of Frustration to ruin your whole team.

Don't make yourself look stupid by neglecting to read the entire post again.

Chev of Hardass · Dec 14, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adria Soulseeker

It always cracks me up when someone posts an idea about a team build (this one looks pretty nice BTW) and someone else says "OMG!!one11, this would totally be owned by (enter one of any number of skills that might work against said build here)!" People, this has been said many many times, this game is like rock, paper, scissors, in that, for EVERY BUILD and EVERY SKILL, there is ALWAYS something the will counter it effectively!

I like the idea of trying something like this, it might work, and if the other team is not EXACTLY prepared and equipped to deal with it (like using CoF, or any number of other interrupts), it seems like it would work very well. good job!

I said that the poster would probably get some fame form IWAY, but any team worth the binary of their mesmer will bring at least one Cry of Frustration.

I love seeing Monk Smiters ball up.

Free Fame!!!!!

Manfred · Dec 14, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

oh teh noes, wild blow and then interrupts would totally own this build!
So the next time I run this, i'll be careful if I see 3 warriors (enough wild blows to make smite dmg non-lethal) and then rangers or mesmers.

There IS always a counter, but you can usually go whole nights without running into a counter, unless you're an fotm build.

mortalis doleo · Dec 14, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Ahhem, when refering to Mantra of Resolve, two Drain mesmers can knock out Mantra of Resove allowing Cry of Frustration to ruin your whole team.

Don't make yourself look stupid by neglecting to read the entire post again.

CoF won't work since out original poster didn't mean for the monks to ball up.

don't make yourself look stupid by neglecting to read the entire thread again.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 14, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

with the long recharge on cry of frustration, even if you echo it, its not spammable enough to stop anything like this team (this is assuming mantra of inscriptions is the stance that speeds up signet recharge, too many mantras to remember)
not to mention if you have all have the same skin staff and armor and body/hair itll be hard for them to tell one from another, thatll be funny

Chev of Hardass · Dec 14, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

No, but the first spike gets stopped and allows the rest of the team to get up in your teams face and start other forms of interupt. The first spike is generally the most devestating. The next one will be interupted by your Hammer, or Sword, or Axe warrior, and your team looses faith in the ability to kill at all.

Also, your Spike will not be a full spike. You need Mantra of Inscriptions on all of your characters if you are going to use it on any of them. As it is right now, after your first two spikes you will have little chance of having the whole team ready to spike at the same time.

Rico Carridan · Dec 15, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I don't think this build will work in its present form. I know people say that you shouldn't post that "x skill will beat this build" or whatever, but since this is common enough, I thought I'd address it. Any IWAY group will own this team. You will have no chance against them. You aren't running aegis or bonds, which means that they will be able to easily overwhelm your healing abilities. Your main spike has a 2s casting time, which the average IWAY warrior can interrupt. If you're unlucky enough to get caught in the necro's well of profane, you're all dead. Your energy drain ability is basically useless against them. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it from here.

In principle, I like the idea. I think you need more defenses to make it work. Both prot monks are going to need aegis, I think. Both your healers and your protectors need energy management of some form. As it stands, the only type of team you really have a chance of beating something like a trapper team or minion master. I think most other teams will probably be able to break you.

Rico

LightningHell · Dec 15, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Thanks a lot. I'm gonna be looking into this, I'm to lazy the post the outcomes now anyhow.

By the way, can someone list what would they think what would be a threat to what in this build?

By the way, I was meaning to use Mantra of Signets, but I think somebody objected...

fiery · Dec 15, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

i already seen an SOJ build... u arcane it.. u run up to ya target and spike.. its been done in tombs..and very strong.

LightningHell · Dec 15, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

That is not the SoJ we were talking about.

SoJ in here is Signet of Judgement, since I noticed:

You were Arcane Echoing, wheras Signet of Judgement is a Signet (d'uh)
You had to run up to the target, wheras Signet of Judgement has a spellcast-range.

And, yes I don't ball up.

mortalis doleo · Dec 15, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Carridan

I don't think this build will work in its present form. I know people say that you shouldn't post that "x skill will beat this build" or whatever, but since this is common enough, I thought I'd address it. Any IWAY group will own this team. You will have no chance against them. You aren't running aegis or bonds, which means that they will be able to easily overwhelm your healing abilities. Your main spike has a 2s casting time, which the average IWAY warrior can interrupt. If you're unlucky enough to get caught in the necro's well of profane, you're all dead. Your energy drain ability is basically useless against them. I may be missing something, but that's how I see it from here.

In principle, I like the idea. I think you need more defenses to make it work. Both prot monks are going to need aegis, I think. Both your healers and your protectors need energy management of some form. As it stands, the only type of team you really have a chance of beating something like a trapper team or minion master. I think most other teams will probably be able to break you.

Rico

well... against iway this team should ball up, since maelstrom wont do anything to them anyway...
when the warriors are close together, a single spike will take out 3-4 warriors + pets all at once, so with iway its all about whever or not the first two spikes worked...

if it is a good team, it should work...

Rico Carridan · Dec 15, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

well... against iway this team should ball up, since maelstrom wont do anything to them anyway...
when the warriors are close together, a single spike will take out 3-4 warriors + pets all at once, so with iway its all about whever or not the first two spikes worked...

if it is a good team, it should work...

You're not really set up for a healing ball, (notably, no life bonds or healing seeds) I don't see how that would be any more or less of an advantage, other than the fact that it will tend to bring the enemies closer together. The problem is that your spike is only the 580 whatever damage you posted, which is only enough to kill someone if all of your SoJ spells hit. If your healer or prot monk is busy, or one or two of your guys get interrupted, your spike won't do enough damage to kill them (in the first go at least). To be honest, you could be right, but I wouldn't underestimate IWAY against this team, I think they will probably win against you a lot more than they'll lose, particularly if they are halfway competent. You just can't match their damage output. Even if you can kill four warriors and all of the pets with your first two SoJ, then what? You've still got two warriors and two necros, and LOTS of corpses for them to use. You have to hold out with no offensive power for ~30 seconds while SoJ charges, meanwhile they can freely resurrect everyone, use their IWAY with 8 pet bodies present, and start dropping wells all over you (you also have no corpse control, so you have no defense against the wells, other than to scatter).

Hmm... I noticed you've adjusted your builds a little bit throwing in aegis, etc. I'm still really concerned about your prot monks though. Running a boon protector build, with aegis, and no energy management is asking for trouble. If you want to run a boon monk particularly boon prot, you really need at least channelling, better offering of blood. Even your healers, really, will probably have energy problems pretty fast. This looks to me like an average battle will be settled in less than 2 minutes. Either you will cripple them severely with your spike, and can wand the rest of them to death, or they will survive your spike and overwhelm your healers. This will probably make winning/holding the hall a quite challenging, but you might be able to get a bit of fame/rank out of it I guess.

Rico

LightningHell · Dec 16, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

*Note, I do need some advice on Smiting. In any way, anyways.

I haven't got a Post-searing Monk character, anyways.

Is channeling worth it?

Anyways, I'm thinking v.s. warriors (i.e. IWAY), if 1st spike doesn't kill, since they're coming anyways, should I:

Get in Symbol of Wrath
Get in Zealot's Fire
Get in Bane Signet
*shrugs* I don't know.

Or, I could change them all into Mesmers, it would still do enough damage to kill (assuming 12 Smiting), with Fast Cast...That would also mean worse healers, however.

Of course, I could get them to ball up, and get a few skills for balling up...only against IWAY however.